Tell Me :
Talk
Please take that back, we're trying to start a peaceful 2023.
Are you serious?!!
OMG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-03 01:36 by KRiffhard.
With and "exile on main street approach", this album would never have been made.
Just listen to the first 20 seconds and try to imagine it without the 80s sound: groovy bassline, cool guitarlicks and Jagger entering the song confident and cool.
Unfortunately, the 80s sound ruins it.
[www.youtube.com]
Blame yourself, treacle! We were here discussing a non-disputed classic from DIRTY WORK, and you went and picked up a wrong song from the album...
- Doxa
perhaps someone with the skills and the software could get rid of some of that 80's production and post it on youtube
that i'd like to hear
I'd be for it.
Although some of the songwriting is poor the mix alone could improve the songs overall. But that could be an issue in terms of what all was recorded - and not mixed into that we are aware of - that could improve whatever.
But, as an example, if a majority of DIRTY WORK's songs had something similar to TALK IS CHEAP mix and EQ wise... who knows. This is literally shining a turd but if it could be shined, well, why not.
Well, if you as a dedicated DW hater see light on the horizon who am I to not giving a remix a try...
It’s NOT A rated Stones album. And even then, it’s over rated.
Rod
It's NOT my fault! Maxtil posted the video to Winning Ugly espousing the virtues of this piece of mid-80s stones magnificence!
It was click bait!
Don't be frustrated with the fact that the majority don't share your feelings towards the record. Dirty Work is and has always been a bit of a punching bag put at a low point in the bands career but that doesn't mean it doesn't speak to an audience.
But understand it's a relatively small audience.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 17:37 by treaclefingers.
I've often pondered that about the DW album. It would have to be radical. I think several songs could take on a completely new identity.
But the one ingredient that would remain, and IMO negates the experiment, are Jagger's vocals. Winning Ugly, Zero, Hold Back, Fight, all feature terrible LV.
The good parts of the album like 'Harlem", "Too Rude", "Had it with you" and "One Hit" are great.
"Dirty Work" the title track starts out so good, and then just takes a left turn, and gets lost somewhere in the meadow.
Treacle, seriously...if we didn't have "Winning Ugly," we could never have "Ruthless People."
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Ha, Ruthless People...I have that on a 45 somewhere.
Listen, if I remember correctly Dirty Work was their best album since Exile, which would make Winning Ugly the "Rocks Off" of the 80s...or something.
Admitted, the opening riff to Winning Ugly sounds promising and original. In view of what other singles could have been released from DW, there wasn't a better choice for a 3rd single other than Winning Ugly and maybe Too Rude.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 21:17 by skytrench.
Only a single in Canada I believe. Which is why both the 7" and 12" release are so rare and perhaps also why it hasn't been on any compilations...that and it's an awful song.
Nah, bad songs are bad songs. Remixing can't help them.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: January 2, 2023 23:11
I wasn't referring to your opinion rolling1us, but the track itself.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
rolling1us
()
Date: January 2, 2023 23:13
Yeah, i understood that.
But it is, as always, a question of personal taste.
A song i truly don't like on the DW album is "fight".
But it is, as always, a question of personal taste.
A song i truly don't like on the DW album is "fight".
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 3, 2023 01:11
Quote
bakersfield
I can't for the life of me see what's wrong with it...
Good groove, decent hook.....one of the few songs on the album where some of the production elements help the song...allowing that it was the 1980's....
I like the words too- especially the 'I prefer to rot, I don't wanna pop' couplet. Concise and witty. Compared to the 'yellow and jello/wits and tits' rhyme we got 2005 it's practically Shakespeare.
'Back to Zero' would have improved Side 2 of Undercover..
Please take that back, we're trying to start a peaceful 2023.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
SomeGuy
()
Date: January 3, 2023 01:29
I count this song as being part of the 'good half' of DW, the music as well as the lyrics.
(The other half of DW is pretty awful, both musically and lyrically.)
(The other half of DW is pretty awful, both musically and lyrically.)
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: January 3, 2023 01:35
Quote
matxilQuote
padre69
I would REALLY like to hear someone to make a good cover version of this. And Winning Ugly, too. To show me I've just been stupid all these years and haven't heard the brilliance that lies deep down in the core of these songs.
And while we're at it, the same for Sweet Neocon and Infamy, please.
I am with you on Winning Ugly. It really is a good song but it gets ruined by the awful 80s sound. Especially - of course - the bass and the drums. With a Exile on Main Street approach, this song would have been wonderful.
But for the other songs you mention, there's just no solution. Back To Zero suffers mainly from the 80's sound too, but without the 80's sound (keyboards, and other gimmicks) there's nothing left. It's just elevator-Mel-and-Kim-supermarket-80's-muzak. Sweet Neocon suffers so badly from the lyrics that it's impossible to listen to. And the same goes for Infamy/In-for-me. Both are very very very terrible, but not as bad as Back To Zero.
And while we're at it, two other classical "awful" songs: Gomper is much better for the first part (I am still not sure, did they nick the melody from Velvet Underground's Lady Godiva or is the other way around?), quite nice actually, before it becomes a trainwreck and Streets of Love isn't so bad really.
The only other song that can really compete with the abysmal awfulness of Back To Zero is Sing Together (See What Happens). And since I am not able to listen to either of those songs entirely in one go, I call it a draw.
Are you serious?!!
OMG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-03 01:36 by KRiffhard.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 3, 2023 03:12
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
matxilQuote
padre69
I would REALLY like to hear someone to make a good cover version of this. And Winning Ugly, too. To show me I've just been stupid all these years and haven't heard the brilliance that lies deep down in the core of these songs.
And while we're at it, the same for Sweet Neocon and Infamy, please.
I am with you on Winning Ugly. It really is a good song but it gets ruined by the awful 80s sound. Especially - of course - the bass and the drums. With a Exile on Main Street approach, this song would have been wonderful.
But for the other songs you mention, there's just no solution. Back To Zero suffers mainly from the 80's sound too, but without the 80's sound (keyboards, and other gimmicks) there's nothing left. It's just elevator-Mel-and-Kim-supermarket-80's-muzak. Sweet Neocon suffers so badly from the lyrics that it's impossible to listen to. And the same goes for Infamy/In-for-me. Both are very very very terrible, but not as bad as Back To Zero.
And while we're at it, two other classical "awful" songs: Gomper is much better for the first part (I am still not sure, did they nick the melody from Velvet Underground's Lady Godiva or is the other way around?), quite nice actually, before it becomes a trainwreck and Streets of Love isn't so bad really.
The only other song that can really compete with the abysmal awfulness of Back To Zero is Sing Together (See What Happens). And since I am not able to listen to either of those songs entirely in one go, I call it a draw.
Are you serious?!!
OMG
With and "exile on main street approach", this album would never have been made.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: January 3, 2023 03:38
For years and years, "Back to Zero" and 'Dirty Work' as a whole were my least favorite moments in the band's recorded history.
As time has gone by, 'Voodoo Lounge' is now my least favorite album but "Back to Zero" remains my least favorite track.
As time has gone by, 'Voodoo Lounge' is now my least favorite album but "Back to Zero" remains my least favorite track.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: January 3, 2023 06:55
Least favorite Stones track! Right behind it are several others from the album, Dirty Work, Hold Back, Fight, Winning Ugly. I'll say that Had It With You is not terrible, but not very good either, I'm always surprised how much people seem to like that one.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: January 3, 2023 10:19
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
matxilQuote
padre69
[...]
Are you serious?!!
OMG
Just listen to the first 20 seconds and try to imagine it without the 80s sound: groovy bassline, cool guitarlicks and Jagger entering the song confident and cool.
Unfortunately, the 80s sound ruins it.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
DiamondDog7
()
Date: January 3, 2023 12:08
Crap!
It's like a soundtrack for a bad comedy movie from the 80s! Those awful 80s keyboard and percussion sounds...
It's like a soundtrack for a bad comedy movie from the 80s! Those awful 80s keyboard and percussion sounds...
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: January 3, 2023 23:55
Surprisingly enough after listening to it again I would not say that I love the song but...I could give a chance to it.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
DGA35
()
Date: January 3, 2023 23:58
Weird how a lot of old posts from over a decade ago are being resurrected these past few days!
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2023 00:14
Winning Ugly is worse than I remembered. That whole intro is brutal.
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 4, 2023 00:22
Quote
treaclefingers
Winning Ugly is worse than I remembered. That whole intro is brutal.
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
Blame yourself, treacle! We were here discussing a non-disputed classic from DIRTY WORK, and you went and picked up a wrong song from the album...
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: January 4, 2023 04:05
Quote
matxilQuote
KRiffhardQuote
matxilQuote
padre69
[...]
Are you serious?!!
OMG
Just listen to the first 20 seconds and try to imagine it without the 80s sound: groovy bassline, cool guitarlicks and Jagger entering the song confident and cool.
Unfortunately, the 80s sound ruins it.
[www.youtube.com]
perhaps someone with the skills and the software could get rid of some of that 80's production and post it on youtube
that i'd like to hear
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: January 4, 2023 04:08
also slightly off topic how many of you would pay for a remixed dirty work with the dated 80's stuff toned significantly down?
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 04:10 by ProfessorWolf.
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 04:10 by ProfessorWolf.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 4, 2023 05:01
Quote
ProfessorWolf
also slightly off topic how many of you would pay for a remixed dirty work with the dated 80's stuff toned significantly down?
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
I'd be for it.
Although some of the songwriting is poor the mix alone could improve the songs overall. But that could be an issue in terms of what all was recorded - and not mixed into that we are aware of - that could improve whatever.
But, as an example, if a majority of DIRTY WORK's songs had something similar to TALK IS CHEAP mix and EQ wise... who knows. This is literally shining a turd but if it could be shined, well, why not.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: January 4, 2023 11:54
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
ProfessorWolf
also slightly off topic how many of you would pay for a remixed dirty work with the dated 80's stuff toned significantly down?
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
I'd be for it.
Although some of the songwriting is poor the mix alone could improve the songs overall. But that could be an issue in terms of what all was recorded - and not mixed into that we are aware of - that could improve whatever.
But, as an example, if a majority of DIRTY WORK's songs had something similar to TALK IS CHEAP mix and EQ wise... who knows. This is literally shining a turd but if it could be shined, well, why not.
Well, if you as a dedicated DW hater see light on the horizon who am I to not giving a remix a try...
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: January 4, 2023 12:51
Quote
James Kirk
This song is the low point of the Stones career from a generally underrated record.
It’s NOT A rated Stones album. And even then, it’s over rated.
Rod
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2023 16:42
Quote
DoxaQuote
treaclefingers
Winning Ugly is worse than I remembered. That whole intro is brutal.
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
Blame yourself, treacle! We were here discussing a non-disputed classic from DIRTY WORK, and you went and picked up a wrong song from the album...
- Doxa
It's NOT my fault! Maxtil posted the video to Winning Ugly espousing the virtues of this piece of mid-80s stones magnificence!
It was click bait!
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
frenki09
()
Date: January 4, 2023 16:45
Back To Zero is a catchy tune. Yes, it's more like Jagger's solo stuff and it's very much of its time, but compared to Goin' Home, Send It To Me, Sad Day or Indian Girl (Where is your Mama?), Back To Zero is an inspired song.
I get a kick out of seeing how much some of you are driven mad by your hatred towards Dirty Work. You don't miss a chance to voice your opinion, that's for sure.
It was a great album to play air guitar to in my teenage years in front of the mirror. I wish they'd release a new album this year with songs as memorable and as catchy as the ones on Dirty Work. Bigger Bang! Now that's an album that tries to impress only with its in-your-face loudness...
To me, One Hit or Fight does not sound worse or less driven than Ghost Town.
Gotta hate Mike Love, Phil Collins, Robbie Robertson... All this nonsense about musicians we don't even know in person. I don't hate any musicians, any albums, any songs.
So now it's it's time for more hate-filled comments related to Dirty Work.
I get a kick out of seeing how much some of you are driven mad by your hatred towards Dirty Work. You don't miss a chance to voice your opinion, that's for sure.
It was a great album to play air guitar to in my teenage years in front of the mirror. I wish they'd release a new album this year with songs as memorable and as catchy as the ones on Dirty Work. Bigger Bang! Now that's an album that tries to impress only with its in-your-face loudness...
To me, One Hit or Fight does not sound worse or less driven than Ghost Town.
Gotta hate Mike Love, Phil Collins, Robbie Robertson... All this nonsense about musicians we don't even know in person. I don't hate any musicians, any albums, any songs.
So now it's it's time for more hate-filled comments related to Dirty Work.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2023 16:49
Quote
frenki09
Back To Zero is a catchy tune. Yes, it's more like Jagger's solo stuff and it's very much of its time, but compared to Goin' Home, Send It To Me, Sad Day or Indian Girl (Where is your Mama?), Back To Zero is an inspired song.
I get a kick out of seeing how much some of you are driven mad by your hatred towards Dirty Work. You don't miss a chance to voice your opinion, that's for sure.
It was a great album to play air guitar to in my teenage years in front of the mirror. I wish they'd release a new album this year with songs as memorable and as catchy as the ones on Dirty Work. Bigger Bang! Now that's an album that tries to impress only with its in-your-face loudness...
To me, One Hit or Fight does not sound worse or less driven than Ghost Town.
Gotta hate Mike Love, Phil Collins, Robbie Robertson... All this nonsense about musicians we don't even know in person. I don't hate any musicians, any albums, any songs.
So now it's it's time for more hate-filled comments related to Dirty Work.
Don't be frustrated with the fact that the majority don't share your feelings towards the record. Dirty Work is and has always been a bit of a punching bag put at a low point in the bands career but that doesn't mean it doesn't speak to an audience.
But understand it's a relatively small audience.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 17:37 by treaclefingers.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: January 4, 2023 17:09
Quote
ProfessorWolf
also slightly off topic how many of you would pay for a remixed dirty work with the dated 80's stuff toned significantly down?
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
I've often pondered that about the DW album. It would have to be radical. I think several songs could take on a completely new identity.
But the one ingredient that would remain, and IMO negates the experiment, are Jagger's vocals. Winning Ugly, Zero, Hold Back, Fight, all feature terrible LV.
The good parts of the album like 'Harlem", "Too Rude", "Had it with you" and "One Hit" are great.
"Dirty Work" the title track starts out so good, and then just takes a left turn, and gets lost somewhere in the meadow.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 4, 2023 17:19
Quote
treaclefingers
Winning Ugly is worse than I remembered. That whole intro is brutal.
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
Treacle, seriously...if we didn't have "Winning Ugly," we could never have "Ruthless People."
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2023 17:39
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
treaclefingers
Winning Ugly is worse than I remembered. That whole intro is brutal.
THANKS! This will now end up an 'earworm' and I'll wake up at 3 in the morning with, "WE'LL BE WINNING...WINNING...WINNANNG...UGLY!".
Just bloody great!
Treacle, seriously...if we didn't have "Winning Ugly," we could never have "Ruthless People."
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Ha, Ruthless People...I have that on a 45 somewhere.
Listen, if I remember correctly Dirty Work was their best album since Exile, which would make Winning Ugly the "Rocks Off" of the 80s...or something.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
PaintMonkeyManBlack
()
Date: January 4, 2023 18:06
how can this be the same band which was so brilliant 3 years before (both on record and tour)
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
padre69
()
Date: January 4, 2023 20:50
Quote
Rocky DijonWinning Ugly was chosen as a third single off the album after Harlem and One hit, so they must’ve really liked that song. Or at least someone did. Haven’t seen that single a lot on Stones compilations…Quote
treaclefingers
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
skytrench
()
Date: January 4, 2023 21:16
Quote
padre69Quote
Rocky DijonWinning Ugly was chosen as a third single off the album after Harlem and One hit, so they must’ve really liked that song. Or at least someone did. Haven’t seen that single a lot on Stones compilations…Quote
treaclefingers
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Admitted, the opening riff to Winning Ugly sounds promising and original. In view of what other singles could have been released from DW, there wasn't a better choice for a 3rd single other than Winning Ugly and maybe Too Rude.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-04 21:17 by skytrench.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2023 22:23
Quote
skytrenchQuote
padre69Quote
Rocky DijonWinning Ugly was chosen as a third single off the album after Harlem and One hit, so they must’ve really liked that song. Or at least someone did. Haven’t seen that single a lot on Stones compilations…Quote
treaclefingers
Now go and dig up the 1985 interview where Keith brags about his opening riff to "Winning Ugly" and how his peers are coming up to him asking him how he came up with it. And this before the album was even released.
Admitted, the opening riff to Winning Ugly sounds promising and original. In view of what other singles could have been released from DW, there wasn't a better choice for a 3rd single other than Winning Ugly and maybe Too Rude.
Only a single in Canada I believe. Which is why both the 7" and 12" release are so rare and perhaps also why it hasn't been on any compilations...that and it's an awful song.
Re: Track Talk: Back To Zero
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: January 5, 2023 01:55
Quote
ProfessorWolf
also slightly off topic how many of you would pay for a remixed dirty work with the dated 80's stuff toned significantly down?
and do you think if the remix was well done that it would change in any major way your view of the album?
Nah, bad songs are bad songs. Remixing can't help them.
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